We Will Get Through This

Thank you for listening this far and meeting some of the amazing people I've had the honour and privilege of talking to. Right now I'm sitting back, imagining what's next. I'd like to take a moment to ask for some feedback and point you in some cool directions for how to engage while we're on a brief break. You're awesome and you're doing great. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I recorded this episode in early July 2020, one year since I stepped away from being CEO of Box of Crayons and handed that responsibility over to today’s guest, Dr. Shannon Minifie. Now, most so-called founder transitions end up on the rocky shores of defeat for two reasons. First, most founders are a little bit like me: kind of neurotic and egotistical and wanting to keep our fingers in the pie. And second, it’s just a really hard thing to hand over an organization that is in many ways an embodiment of you, your values, and the impact you want to have in the world. So who did I trust with this and why is she doing such a brilliant job? In a word, Shannon Minifie is a Zenobia: a powerful, determined, unstoppable woman. Shannon began her career in academia, driven by her desire to be a part of conversations she thinks are important. In 2016, she joined Box of Crayons and started a career in corporate learning and development. Three years later, she became the CEO. Shannon brings to this role over a decade of experience in education, an incredible enthusiasm, and her superpower: a depth and rigor of thinking that investigates everything to its core. In our conversation, we discuss the three kinds of curiosity; the impacts curiosity culture can have on innovation, resilience, engagement, and connection; the relationship between curiosity and world-making; the importance of thinking of curiosity as a state, not a trait, and how that changes how you spark, peak, and cultivate it; and why curiosity is more important now than ever. You can meet Shannon at Boxofcrayons.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

One of the phrases that struck me when I was interviewing Tom Kolditz was when he said that “the US military is very egalitarian, very much in a meritocracy. People are expected to never lean on their rank. The rank gives them a certain set of responsibilities. But it doesn't give them any advantage in the framework that we operate in our military.” Tom rose to the rank of Brigadier General, which should give you some sense of his calibre as a leader. I’ve had the chance to get to know him as he’s gone about scaling and reinventing the way coaching works to support students in university settings, and Iwas excited to talk to him about how to lead in the most difficult of times. Tom Kolditz is the founding Director of the Doerr Institute for New Leaders at Rice University, named top university program by the Association of Leadership Educators. In 2017, he received the Warren Bennis Award for Excellence in Leadership, and has ranked among the top 25 global coaches for three years. The Doerr Institute is his fifth successful leader development start-up. His book In Extremis Leadership: Leading as if Your Life Depended on It has become one of the go-to texts for leading in the COVID-19 crisis. In our conversation we dig into the process for evaluating risk in a snapshot moment; the power of a premortem; how to enroll the most junior person in a room tocreate diversity of thought; and why feelings matter in a time of crisis. You can meet Tom at www.tomkolditz.com and see his institutional work at www.doerr.rice.edu and @doerrinstitute on Twitter. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

When you ask “what makes a leader?” you will hear back, almost immediately, “vision”. Show us the way! Shine the light! “Without vision, the people perish” or so it’s written... But, perhaps not. What if “vision” was overrated ... and that another leadership behaviour was shown to be much more important? Today I’m speaking to Gianpiero “GP” Petriglieri, Associate Professor of Organizational Behaviour at INSEAD, Europe’s preeminent business school. A recent article of his on HBR.org laid down the gauntlet: vision is overrated. Trying “holding” instead. In our conversation GP and I dig into the dangers of vision, and the dangerous story that many visions hold; what he means exactly by “holding” and its two different components; a favourite model of mine, Karpman’s Drama Triangle; and why we shouldn’t think of “holding” as being soft, because of the importance of challenge in this concept. You can meet GP at www.gpetriglieri.com and on Twitter at @gpetriglierito say hello. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I’ve been busy all my life. And quite frankly, I’ve enjoyed it. Teetering on over-commitment ...there’s an exhilaration to that. And gosh, I’m tired sometimes. Part of the self-growth work for me right now is creating space in my life to think, to regenerate, to allow what’s next to emerge. And, frankly, I need help because of my lifetime habit of filling my calendar. That’s why I’m talking to Juliet Funt today. Juliet is the CEO of White Space at Work, an organizational efficiency consultancy to organizations big and small. She is a tough yet loving guide to thousands of white space learners and fans, and a globally recognized warrior in the battle of effectiveness versus reactive busy-ness. She's been working at home full time for 24 years and running 100% virtual teams since the day she launched her organization. When we talked she was seeing out COVID-19 in New Zealand. In our conversation we look at the diminishing cycle of busyness and exhaustion we can all find ourselves in; what she means by “white space” and why it’s so essential at a personal and an organizational level; and why a critical question is “how much is enough?” You can meet Juliet at WhiteSpaceAtWork.com where you can also find a complimentary assessment to help you take the temperature of morale in your team and organization. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Hard as it is to believe, We Will Get Through This is not the only awesome podcast around here. Really, it’s true. Once a season, I’ll be sharing an episode from another podcast I listen to and admire, and there’s no better place to start than with Dave Stachowiak’s Coaching for Leaders. I’ve been a guest four times, and that’s not a scheduling error on my part. It’s me delighting in being in conversation with a smart, prepared and engaged host. I asked Dave which episode he thought we should feature, and his first suggestion was this conversation with Shelley Winner. It’s an absolute beauty. Shelley was caught in a downward spiral, and had ended up in jail. Statistics would suggest she’d be kept down in a vicious circle: you go to jail, you can’t establish yourself once you’re out of jail, you find yourself using old behaviour to survive, you go back to jail ... and so it goes. In this conversation Dave explores with Shelley why prison was the easiest part of her journey; how she took her first step towards working with one of the world’s biggest tech companies; the battle that almost cost her everything; and exactly why organizations should consider hiring past offenders. You can see Shelley’s excellent TEDx talk at http://www.tedxfonddulac.com/speakers/shelley-winner/. You can subscribe to Dave’s podcast at https://coachingforleaders.com/. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free

Bill Carrier is someone you’ve never heard of. Years ago, as a counterintuitive marketing strategy, he decided that he’d do no marketing. No website. No business card. No social media. You found out about Bill through word of mouth, and word of mouth only. I met him when we both worked with TED Fellows on a retreat, and we had the opportunity to work together. I was struck by his generosity, his big heart, and his wisdom. Bill is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, a former army officer and a Rotary international ambassador scholar. He anchors his coaching work in extensive practical leadership experience and the firm belief that we're all part of something bigger than ourselves. He also contributes to the coaching profession in many ways: he's the co-founder and co-editor of the Future of Coaching magazine and a Founding Fellow of the Institute of Coaching at the Harvard Medical School. In our conversation we start with the importance of character and strategy (and why character matters the most); how to be generous and still give direction and hold people accountable; the difference between empathy and multi-perspective; and how to set yourself up to perform at the highest level. It’s tricky to find Bill online, but the best place to connect is via LinkedIn. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Dave Snowden a few episodes ago. I loved it, although I admit I was a little intimidated by engaging in conversation with someone who has such a sharp mind and who’s thought about the challenges and possibilities of complexity for so long. You might have gotten to the end of that episode and asked ... “and now what?” Let me introduce you to today’s guest. Aaron Dignan is the author of one of the most exciting books that I’ve read in the last number of years. Brave New Work lays down the challenge (and shows the way) to build an organization that is both “people positive” and also “complexity conscious”. In our conversation we talk about the idea of the adjacent possible and why it’s a helpful alternative to the classic “five year plan”; the power of constraints, and how they define systems (and why that matters); why “tension” gets a bad rap; and how to acknowledge and navigate the resistance that this type of change will always engender. You can meet Aaron at www.BraveNewWork.com and learn about his firm The Ready at www.TheReady.com. You can also listen to his podcast, Brave New Work. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I originally invited Kerry, today’s guest, because she’s one of the world’s top financial bloggers. Truly. Her blog is one of the most visited websites in the world. But in setting up the call, I discovered that she had another story she could tell in the context of We Will Get Through This. It’s the experience of surviving one of the most virulent forms of breast cancer. Kerry’s an absolute pro at talking to the media ... but not about cancer. So this is a rare and precious conversation. In it we discuss that moment when you have the worst possible news confirmed; what it is you can actually control, and why that really matters; how to ensure the uncertainty of the future doesn’t steal away the joy of the present; and what Kerry learnt about her own tendency to perfectionism. You can meet Kerry at her blog SquawkFox.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I hope you’ve had that experience of walking into somewhere special; a place that has a resonance, and a capacity, and a potential. But where does that special something, that sacredness, come from? Is it just a trick of architecture? What role do we have in creating sacred space ... and why would we want to? Pamay Bassey is the CLO of Kraft Heinz and a lifelong learner who loves laughter, words, big ideas and serving her community. She is also the Chief Experience Officer of the My 52 Weeks of Worship project, which you can learn more about through her TEDx talk. In our conversation we talk about why we might create sacred spaces and what purpose they serve; the core requirements needed to create sacred space; the role of learning in a modern organization; and how learning and generosity are fundamentally connected. You can meet Pamay on her LinkedIn page and learn more about her year of worship at My52wow.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Think one year ahead. You can likely do that. Think 15 years ahead, let’s say to 2035. You might just about be able to do that. Think 100 years ahead. Almost impossible. And 1000 years? And yet, if we don’t build our capacity to think beyond our timespan, we’re likely doomed. So, how to do that? I’ve been a member of an organization called The Long Now Foundation for ten years. They’re committed to long-term thinking. We’re 10,000 years into civilization. How do we act as stewards for the next 10,000 years? The perfect person to answer this question is Alexander Rose, the Executive Director of The Long Now Foundation. Alexander is an industrial designer who’s been involved in The Long Now Foundation since 01997 (the way they write the year reflects a 10,000 year calendar, btw). Projects include a stunning mechanical 10,000 year clock and a fantastic seminar series and podcast on long-term thinking. In our conversation we discuss: how the combination of mechanisms and myths help generate the conversations we need to survive the next 10,000 years; what it means to think about “a hundred year fix”; how the Foundation decides where to invest its time and money; and why their policy is to not take sides. You can meet Alexander at LongNow.org, and I’d encourage you to consider a membership to support the Foundation’s work. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

Cynefin! Say it with me ... Well, you probably can’t. Because it’s a Welsh word and you have to know how it’s said: Ku-NEV-in. My guest today is Dave Snowden, the creator of the Cynefin model. And the reason we’re learning a little bit of Welsh is because this is the model that helps us understand what it means to be operating within a complex system, and how that differs from ordered systems and chaos. It’s a framework that fundamentally changes how you understand the world. In my conversation with Dave we discuss exactly what the Cynefin model is; the importance of boundaries and transition; why Dave’s a skeptic about Emotional Intelligence; and the power of being a generalist. You can meet Dave and the Cynefin community at cognitive-edge.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

How to have a good day. I for one want to know the answer to that. Now! Immediately! Now let me be clear. I don't want bland, predictable “there is no ‘i’ in innovation” type aphorisms.I want insights from science, so the changes I make are based in reality. So let me introduce you to Caroline Webb. She is an executive coach, author and speaker who specializes in showing people how to use insights from behavioural science to improve their professional lives. Her book is called –you got it—How to Have a Good Day, and it's been published in 14 languages and more than 60 countries. She is also a senior advisor to McKinsey where she was previously a partner. In our conversation we discuss: the brain science of engagement; how to calm your brain when it’s feeling anxious; the power of labeling; and the power of connecting to what you’re uniquely good at. You can meet Caroline at HowToHaveAGoodDay.com where there are various resources you can get hold of. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

The power of ritual is profound. It’s woven deep into the rhythms of societies, and its power lies in the marking of a transition, from one state to another. It often means a death of some sort: something needs to pass, before something new can arrive. But few of us are comfortable with death, literal or metaphoric. My guest today is Sarah Kerr,a ritual healing practitioner and death doula whose work supports the living, the dying, and the dead. She facilitates private and public healing rituals, and regularly presents on topics of death midwifery and holistic death care. Sarah has a PhD in Transformative Learning, and a Master’s degree in Environmental Studies. Her doctoral research explored the ways that modern western people can restore and re-create meaningful rituals for the significant transitions of life, and she has been a student of spiritual and shamanic healing modalities since 2000. In our conversation we unpack what a ritual is; explore how we loosen our fixation on the physical and the outer and the visible and the tangible; how grief and grieving differ; and how to understand our life as a spiral rather than a relentless trajectory. You can meet Sarah at www.soulpassages.ca, on Instagram at @soul.passages and on her YouTube channel. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I love the power of thinking about your thinking. This is where sustainable learning truly happens. Not in the telling. Not in the doing. But in the reflection on what’s happening. When you see patterns, you learn to manage them. My guest today is Trevor Ragan, the founder of The Learner Lab, an educational website that helps unpack and share the science of learning and development. Trevor spends his time with thought leaders and researchers from the worlds of psychology and developmental science, consumes their research, connects the dots, and shares it with anyone who will listen. In our conversation we talk about an essential process for successful training; why random can be better than predictable; a counterintuitive approach to managing difficult emotions; and of course, just what it means to train ugly. You can meet Trevor at thelearnerlab.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free

You know me well enough to know that I love a good question. But there are times, particularly in a crisis, when the questions you’re being asked feel impossible to answer. They ask for certainty and reassurance that you’re just not able to give. In that moment, you feel anxiety and uncertainty. What do you say to the unanswerable question? Ron Carucci has a suggestion. He is co-founder and managing partner at Navalent, and works with CEOs and executives pursuing transformational change for their organizations, leaders, and industries. He is the author of 8 books, a relentless contributor to the Harvard Business Review, and a two-time TEDx speaker. In our conversation we talk about the power of knowing you don’t know; when the best answer is sometimes another question; the somatic wisdom of your body; and how grace can be a guiding principle when you don’t know what to do. You can meet Ron at www.navalent.com, read his many articles on HBR, and connect on Twitter at @RonCarucci. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free

You know the marshmallow test, right? Some poor kid put in a room with a single marshmallow in front of them, and a choice: eat it now, or resist the temptation for 5 minutes and get a second marshmallow. Even though the research has been shown to be problematic, it’s illustrative: we so often take short-term, in-the-moment gratification that goes against our long-term interests. Bina Venkataraman is the editorial page editor of The Boston Globe and a fellow at New America. Before joining the Globe, she served as a senior adviser for climate change innovation in the Obama White House, was the director of Global Policy Initiatives at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, and taught in the program on Science, Technology, and Society at MIT. She is the author of a terrific book, The Optimist's Telescope: Thinking Ahead in a Reckless Age. In our conversation we talk about the power of a vividly imagined future; how to deal with vulnerable decision points; lessons learned from professional poker players; and both the flaws and usefulness of the marshmallow test. You can meet Bina at writerbina.com or on Twitter @BinaJV to say hello. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

The odds are you’re not an elite athlete. I know, for sure and without a doubt, that I’m not. When I am playing sports or working out, the thing that’s mostly going through my head is how do I keep myself from quitting, because I almost always have that desire to quit halfway through. The way champions like Bonnie St. John do it, in part, is by building micro-resilience. Bonnie is a former Olympian, and the first African Americanto win medals in a winter Olympic competition, taking home silver and two bronze medals at the 1984 winter Paralympics in Innsbruck, Austria. Today, Bonnie travels the globe as a keynote speaker, Fortune 500 leadership expert, and the bestselling author of seven books. She was a Rhodes Scholar, and served in the White House as a Director of the National Economic Council during the Clinton administration. NBC Nightly News called Bonnie one of the five most inspiring women in America. In our conversation we dive into the principles, strategies and tactics of micro-resilience; explore how someone from San Diego ends up winning skiing medals; look into the power of what happens in between the moments of performance; and how to stay focused on “the next turn”,whatever that may be for you. You can meet Bonnie, watch her TEDx talk and pick up her resilience first aid kit at microresilience.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people headmires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

I have three broad categories of books in my life. First, there are the books that come and go pretty quickly. They’re just not very good. There are quite a lot of those. The second bucket are ones I read and think, “This is a pretty good book. There’s a smart idea buried in here.” And then the final category is made up of the types of books I strive to write. Powerful, designed, elegant and stirring. These are the books I keep on my top shelf, that travel with me when I move. Dr. Alexander Osterwalder writes those types of books. He is one of the world's most influential innovation experts, and is an author, entrepreneur and speaker. He was ranked number four in theworld by Thinkers 50, and he shot to fame with his business model canvas, a tool used by millions worldwide. His new book is The Invincible Company, and it’s fantastic. In our conversation we talk about what it means to me to create an ambidextrous company; the role of the CEO in innovation; some examples from his library of different business models; and the power of a gravity creation model. You can meet Alex and access his work at Strategyzer.com. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.

It’s one of the stories that doesn’t quite seem real. Man has a really rough time in his life, starts a blog to cheer himself up--1,000 awesome things--it blows up, the book versions sell millions, the TEDx talk is seen by more millions, and he goes on to write more intriguing books, begin compelling podcasts and be a sought after keynote speaker. My friend Neil Pasricha is this self-same man. He’s a friend of mine, and we’ve spent time walking Toronto, visiting second-hand bookstores, drinking cocktails and talking. Neil’s a great talker. Of his Awesome books, his latest is my favourite: You are Awesome. It blends science and motivation, and I use a number of his suggestions to make my life better. He’s also the host of the number one book podcast in the world, 3 Books, which features guests such as Malcolm Gladwell, David Sedaris, the former sex-worker who wrote the world’s first children’s book featuring a sex-working parent … and me. In our conversation, we look at the magical 40% of life you can control; why the question about half-full or half-empty is the wrong question about the glass; the three books I shared in his podcast; and how and why Neil is starting to think of himself as an activist. You can meet Neil at Neil.blog and listen to his fantastic podcast 3 Books. Episode 48, featuring me, is a particular classic. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free.