Life Beyond The Numbers

"So by that definition, all stories are useful. The question is: to what end?" Jay Perry Jay Perry and I explored what happens when we begin to see story not as decoration or distraction, but as data - the language we use to survive, connect and create. Jay shared his definition that “a story is language put to use” and reminded us that “all stories are useful” - the real question being to what end? Together we examined how some stories serve connection, while others become what Jay calls “story infections” - narratives shaped by fear, judgement or diminishment. We talked about the stories that get “archived,” the ones that still run in the background long after we’ve outgrown them and what it means to interrupt or catch those stories before they shape our choices. Jay also introduced Storysphere, his community platform for engaging with stories consciously and creatively. Jay Perry, (aka Wonder Man), has spent the last 45+ years creating communities to explore how to make the most of our human experience. In addition to Storycatchers he has created The Actors’ Information Project, The Coaching Collective, The Listening Games, and Wonder-shops. He also participated in the creation of Coach University and the International Coaching Federation. Jay is a Master Coach (MCAC), personal champion and creative partner for performers, artists, entrepreneurs, and the neurodiverse community. He is known as one of the world’s leading mentors for new coaches seeking professional certification. He is currently on the teaching faculty of The ADD Coaching Academy and the Board of Directors for the Re-Entry Coaching Academy. As co-author of Take Charge of Your Talent: three Keys to Thriving in Your Career, Organization, and Life, Jay has led workshops for thousands of people around the world on diverse topics such as business planning, leader­ship, transformational change, personal mastery, coaching skills, communication, and career planning. Jay lives in Charlottesville, Virginia, with his wife, Susan. Connect with Jay Through his website www.jayperry.com Storysphere Central https://www.storyspherecentral.com/ Email: jay@storycatchers.net Resources Mentioned The Big Ask, Illuminated, BBC Sounds Benjamin Zander "How Fascinating" Tim Gallwey Tim Gallwey: "capital P equals small p minus I, which stands for performance equals potential minus interference" Story Thinking by Angus Fletcher Take Charge of Your Talent by Don Maruska and Jay Perry

"There is a pilot light running in all of us, and to me that pilot light is the artist inside us." Alexander Inchbald Alexander Inchbald and I have an in-depth conversation about creativity and the courage to listen to something larger than ourselves. Alexander equates our inner spark - our "light" - with the artist within, present in all of us, even when dimmed. We explore the roles of different types of artists, like creators, collaborators, cultivators, and choreographers and how these roles influence personal and professional lives. He shares stories of painting in blizzards, consulting with global leaders and learning to surrender control. We talk about what surrender really means? Spoiler ... it doesn't mean wave a white flag. Alexander emphasises the need for leaders to embrace change and come from a place of inner peace to make a meaningful impact. And we talk about what is playing out in the world stage and the importance of speaking truth to power. Alexander Inchbald is a global authority on creativity and how we can use it to reinvent business in harmony with Mother Nature. He leads The #Masterpiece Agency, designing personal journeys for purposeful pioneers (and their teams) to elevate themselves to the next level by creating and communicating their Masterpiece. He has helped over 2,000 to discover their Purpose in life. Everything he does is based on his mystical experiences painting around the world in blizzards, gale force winds and tropical storms. These experiences and his research into psychology, physiology, metaphysics and epigenentics have helped him to realise we are not passive participants in a universe beyond our control, but active creators of our own playground. He is a bestselling author a few times over, has worked on all of the UN SDGs for some of the largest and most recognised companies. His paintings have been exhibited at Google and Tesla and he lives with his family above Lake Geneva. Connect with Alexander Through his website The #Masterpiece Agency Resources Mentioned Vernon Frost - esoteric teacher Sir Ken Robinson (TED Talk) ‘Do schools kill creativity?’ Masterpiece: What would you do with all the time and money in the world by Alexander Inchbald

"At this particular moment, am I in alignment with, am I in resonance with my values, with what I stand for, with what my heart beats for?" Migena Gjerazi In this special compilation episode, I revisit conversations from Episodes 100 to 200, to bring together moments from conversations to explore how choice isn’t always obvious, but it’s always there. Awareness opens the door. Articulation gives it form. And action, aligned action, carries it forward. You’ll hear different voices and perspectives, but the thread remains the same: we are more powerful than we realise when we give ourselves permission to see, to speak and to step. This episode is a celebration of that. Of the messy, hopeful and courageous work of being human and of choosing to continue moving towards what feels true for us. People featured in this episode: Migena Gjerazi, Asking for Help, Episode 152 Paul Kervanis, Our Expectations, Episode 131 Rob Lawrence, Really Listening, Episode 172 Sam Allen, Reconnecting, Episode 120 Phil Dorman, What You Stand For, Episode 136 Achim Arnold, The Twin Trails, Episode 135 Carissa Bub, Hear the Silence Emerging, Episode 197 Alison Smith, A Metaphor for our Lives, Episode 178 Robyn Harris, The Answers are Inside, Episode 108 James Thirlwall, Transfixed, Episode 194

I didn’t set out to reach 200 episodes—I set out to follow the joy. And in this episode, I reflect on how joy hasn’t come from numbers or milestones, but from the moments in between - from the magic of sitting down and having real, honest conversations. Over the years, I’ve explored everything from emotional intelligence to leadership transitions, from burnout to belonging, from accounting for our emotions to creating more human workplaces. And at the heart of it all has been conversation - curious, meaningful conversation. To mark this milestone, I took myself (and the title of the episode) on a walk through London. I stopped to notice what caught my eye, and three unexpected moments - a sculpture, a street sign, and a sticker - each reminded me in their own way of the joy, the depth and the permission that conversation can hold. This episode isn’t just a celebration of a number - it’s a pause, a breath and an invitation. To slow down. To notice. To listen. Because in a world that rushes, true conversation remains one of our most powerful tools for connection and change and continues to have the power to move us. Susan Ní Chríodáin is the host of Life Beyond the Numbers and founder of Beyond the Numbers, a leadership consultancy rooted in human connection and meaningful change. She’s the author of Leading Beyond the Numbers—an Amazon bestseller and finalist in the 2025 UK Business Book Awards (Leadership category). A former finance director turned leadership guide, Susan brings bold questions, honest conversations and an emotionally intelligent lens to how we live and lead. Through engaging interviews and thoughtful reflection, the podcast explores what really matters at work - beyond the numbers- so we can thrive as whole human beings. Resources Mentioned: This episode includes clips from Episode 109, Collective Joy, Pete Bearder Episode 116, Challenges, Diego Adame Episode 122, What Matters Most, Solo Episode 132, Inner Development Goals, Katharina Moser Episode 133, At Our Best, Solo Episode 135, I Feel Like Me Again, Jo Hunter Episode 145, Facilitate People, John Fairhurst Episode 176, Trust, Kevin Chevis Episode 187, Willing to Take Risks, Liz Jarman Episode 190, Just a Couple of Centimeters of Care, Marc Haine I also make reference to episode 197, Hear the Silence Emerging, Carissa Bub "I Did it My Way" Frank Sinatra David Whyte

"Playfulness is our natural state of well-being. We are playful when we are well." Chris Marshall Chris Marshall and I explore why playfulness isn’t frivolous or childish but fundamental to how we thrive at work and in life. We discuss how playfulness helps us embrace complexity, navigate uncertainty and show up as our whole, human selves. Chris shares his multi-faceted career journey and how bringing all parts of himself into his work is an act of rebellion against boxes and niches. Together, we unpack how playfulness, far from being a distraction, is a powerful driver of well-being, creativity and leadership. Chris Marshall is an entrepreneur and neurodivergent polymath, founder of The Playfulness Institute and Beyond Here, aiming to change the world through research and insights into playfulness and human thriving. Author, researcher, behavioural scientist, psychologist, psychotherapist, investment manager, podcaster, speaker, financial planner, and master distiller. Chris has been told by multiple PR and branding gurus that he should refine his message and concentrate on just one aspect, lest he risk losing his time-starved audience. Yet he’s ignored that advice and gone with what feels right. After all, he’s the first to admit he’s happiest spinning multiple plates. For Chris, it’s not just the joy of learning and discovery; it’s the integration and synergies that can be found between disparate fields of understanding. The golden thread that runs through his life is the aim to change the world by promoting human thriving – and the vital role that playfulness holds. Connect with Chris On LinkedIn The Playfulness Institute website Being Playful Podcast Resources Mentioned The Playful Advantage and Decoding Change by Chris Marshall World Happiness Day – March 20th David Whyte – poet and philosopher Leading Beyond the Numbers by Susan Ní Chríodáin Emotions at Work - Being Playful Podcast (Chris & Susan)

"... you take people outdoors. They get into a resourceful state, you're able to explore more. You can use nature. I call it wayfinding, just like you use a compass and things like that. You can use the path you're on as a metaphor. And because you're outdoors, you can stay inquisitive longer." Murph Murph and I explore the incredible benefits of movement, nature and human connection in leadership and decision-making. We discuss how walking and movement help unlock creativity, enhance decision-making and act as a natural "reset" for the brain​. Being outdoors helps people escape fixed thinking patterns and fosters deeper, more meaningful conversations​ during their shared experience. Murph also shares insights into the power of flow states and why human intelligence remains our greatest asset in a world increasingly dominated by artificial intelligence. Murph is a philosophical adventurer and seasoned coach with a mission to regenerate our approach to community, learning, and personal growth through nature and adventure. With deep roots in outdoor pursuits and wilderness survival, Martin designs and leads bespoke adventure-based learning experiences that enhance wellbeing, resilience, and team performance. Drawing inspiration from philosophers like Aristotle, Martin offers Wild Coaching and Wisdom Walks, integrating ancient wisdom with modern strategies for personal and professional development. These immersive "walkshops" guide leaders and teams into the wild to unlock creativity, strengthen bonds, and foster a regenerative mindset. With a background in military training, environmental science, and outdoor leadership, Martin’s life has been shaped by a deep connection to the outdoors. From early Himalayan explorations to jungle survival training, Martin now channels this wealth of experience into empowering others to harness the transformative power of adventure for mental health and wellbeing. Connect with Murph: Through LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinmurphy-coach/ Through his website https://martinmurphy.coach/ And on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stoicPILGRIMCOACH/ Resources Mentioned: Episode 42, Metamorphosis, with John Shinnick McKinsey Study on Flow States – Research showing executives in flow states are five times more effective​. Ian McGilchrist – Referenced for his work on the asymmetry of the brain Wayfinding by Michael Bond – Discussed in relation to how over-reliance on GPS is diminishing our natural navigational abilities and intelligence. The book explores the psychology of being lost and how it parallels problem-solving in the workplace​. Forest Bathing (Shinrin-Yoku, Japan) – Mentioned in relation to how walking in nature, particularly around trees, increases oxygen intake and contributes to mental well-being​ Stoicism – Murph discusses Stoicism as a philosophy that influenced his approach to resilience, mindset, and coaching. His Instagram handle, Stoic Pilgrim, reflects this blend of Stoic thought and the continuous journey of learning and self-improvement​.

"You can hear the silence emerging in the room. You can hear the sound of silence. There's a peace that comes with, a harmony that comes from it. It offers an opportunity for more sharing, more cooperation, less competition. So it's very generative." Carissa Bub Carissa Bub and I explore the transformative power of silence in leadership and life. We dive into the paradox of silence - how it can feel awkward or even frightening, yet hold the potential for profound connection and insight. We discuss how cultivating stillness can unlock deeper awareness, relational intelligence, and a new level of courageous leadership. By tapping into stillness, leaders can listen more deeply, respond with empathy, and foster psychological safety within teams. Carissa shares her journey of embracing silence as a resource, not just as a practice but as a way of being that enhances presence, influence and authentic leadership. We also discuss the role of reflective practices, playfulness, and trusting in life’s unfolding mystery. Carissa Bub is a Leadership and Systems Coach on a mission to re-humanise organisations. With one foot firmly in the business world and the other gently planted in the earth, she enables leaders and teams to navigate complex change with dignity and agency. For 25 years, she's partnered with C-suite leaders to build stronger connections - from the boardroom to the marketplace - bringing strength and heart to strategic dialogue. As a seasoned facilitator now trained in nature-based practices, she invites her clients to take off their shoes, both physically and metaphorically, deepening their trust in life and empowering them to use their gifts for the benefit of all life. What sets Carissa apart is her unique blend of systemic coaching expertise and her background as a BBC journalist turned media trainer. She creates spaces where authentic communication catalyses real change, helping leaders develop both their inner presence and outer voice to shape lasting impact. As faculty at CRRGlobal and Six Team Conditions, she helps coaches and consultants develop their practice in systemic transformation. A TEDx speaker, Carissa challenges organisations to think differently about leadership and change, cultivating environments where people and performance naturally thrive. Connect with Carissa: Through her website: www.carissabub.com On LinkedIn Resources Mentioned: Conclave – an example of silence and uncertainty in leadership moments. Atomic Habits by James Clear The Sound of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel Marcel Marceau – influenced Carissa’s fascination with silence Brother David Steindl-Rast – for his work on gratefulness and trust in life. Eckhart Tolle – someone who embodies playfulness and presence. Brahma Kumaris (BKs) – their practice of “Just a Minute” silence. London Writers’ Salon – silent writing sessions. Center for Awakening – Monday silence gatherings. On Being with Krista Tippett – Yo-Yo Ma’s discussion on the space between musical notes. Unlimited Futures - Episode 193 Life Beyond the Numbers

"When I realised how much joy there was to be had in life, full stop, in your job and in people paying you to do something you actually enjoy, blew my mind. After 20 years of office work, I was like, wait, wait, I get to have fun and they pay me. I was really surprised by that." Ana Clements Ana Clements and I explore the journey of rediscovering passion, pursuing creativity and embracing reinvention at any stage of life. She shares how reaching midlife made her reflect on what she truly wanted - bringing her back to music, voice work and ultimately, audiobook narration. Ana also shares the impact of late diagnosis of ADHD on her life and discusses the significance of self-compassion, continuous learning, and the art of performing while staying true to oneself. Whether you're considering a career shift or simply need encouragement to take that next step, Ana’s story will leave you inspired to trust your own path and embrace what makes you come alive. Award-nominated Ana Clements is a passionate speaker, coach, and professional voice artist. With over a decade in the industry, she has narrated audiobooks for major publishers, bringing a wealth of character voices to her performances in both British and Spanish. As the founder of Audiobooks on Clubhouse, Ana has built a thriving community where narrators and creatives connect and share insights. Since 2021, she has hosted weekly sessions, deepening her understanding of the challenges and lived experiences of a creative career. Ana has spoken at industry-leading events, including VO Atlanta, MexicoAudio, MAVO, One Voice Conference, and at many writers groups and workshops. A qualified coach since 2022, she works with narrators and authors, offering practical, insightful guidance that empowers them to push past self-limitations with actionable direction. Her creative coaching has been described as “helping others reach a point of clarity on who they are as creative professionals.” Connect with Ana: All of Ana's social media (LinkedIn, Instagram, FaceBook, Threads, etc.) are @AnaClements and her website is https://www.anaclements.co.uk Resources Mentioned: MOOC - Massive Open Online Courses https://www.mooc.org/ Personality Isn’t Permanent by Benjamin Hardy The Art of Possibility by Rosamund Stone Zander & Benjamin Zander

"...because we're all imperfect if we have any kind of power, including even just like having a strong personality, that we can be doing things that we don’t even realise are intimidating or shutting down other people."​ David Lee In this episode, I am joined by Dr. Susanne Evans and David Lee for one of our irregular but always insightful conversations. Today, we dive into the topic of bad behaviour in our workplaces — what it looks like, why it happens and what we can do about it. We include some real-life stories shared with us by others. We touch on the corrosive effects of power and the importance of bringing attention to unacceptable conduct when we see it. We ask the question: what if we are the ones that happen to be behaving questionably .... we are all imperfect after all. We cover the importance of self-awareness and self-reflection. Dr Susanne Evans is an organisation change consultant, trainer, coach and researcher on a mission to change the way that transformations are managed in organisations. She founded Feldspar Consulting in 2007 to help her clients lead change in a more human, effective way. As well as writing and speaking about organisation change, Susanne hosts open storytelling workshops, supporting organisations and individuals in writing a compelling story for themselves, and she is the host of the popular ChangeStories podcast. David Lee is a coach, consultant, workshop facilitator, keynote speaker, and author, who loves creating a win/win/win relationship between people and the organizations they work for. He helps leaders and leadership teams learn how to become "people whisperers", and by doing so, increase their ability to make their organization THE choice for "A List Talent" and inspire the best in their people. Resources Mentioned The No Asshole Rule – Robert Sutton Think Again – Adam Grant Don't Bite the Hook – Pema Chödrön The Jerk's Guide to Happiness - Alyn Mitlyng Leading Beyond the Numbers - Susan Ni Chriodain Episode 64 Being Yourself with Eamon Fitzgerald Episode 69 What Works for You with Alyn Mitlyng

"I was completely transfixed by the idea of these very tiny teapots and these tiny tea cups that were serving small amounts of tea." James Thirlwall James Thirlwall and I explore the connection between tea and creating connection. I venture out of my usual space to record in a delightful and intimate setting: a tiny teahouse in East Oxford. We delve into the world of Japanese tea ceremonies as well as discover how Chinese tea ceremonies cultivate mindfulness and bring people together in a shared, intentional experience. James, who jokingly describes himself as 'a big man in a tiny teahouse', takes us through his journey from living in Japan, his interest in Buddhism and practicing Chinese medicine to opening his tiny teahouse. He shares insights about creating a space that encourages connection and reflection, the role of sensory experiences in evoking memories and emotions and how tea can foster better workplace dynamics. James Thirlwall is a tea lover, former acupuncturist, UKTA certified tea sommelier and educator who uses tea to bring people together. tinyteahouse events are designed to promote fellowship, harmony and inclusion - the values of a traditional Asian tea house culture. James has been working in hospitality for the last 5+ years and works with Michelin star chefs, 5-star hotels and some of the best hotels in Europe. Connect with James Through his tinyteahouse website and on instagram Resources Mentioned https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24262686.oxford-borough-among-coolest-neighbourhoods-uk/ Leading Beyond the Numbers by Susan Ní Chríodáin

"Any given moment contains unlimited futures that can become real. The reality that occurs is the one you pay attention to." [Quoting] Penney Peirce In this inaugural episode of 2025 I reflect on three recent inspirations — a movie and two exhibitions — that explore themes of creativity, certainty and choice. Drawing connections between the iterative nature of creativity, life’s constant rewrites and the courage to start anew, I share insights into how we can embrace change and discover new possibilities and unlimited futures in the year ahead. This episode might be a catalyst or companion for anyone seeking inspiration to rethink their direction, rewrite their plans and rediscover joy in the process of becoming. Resources Mentioned: Constellations by David Whyte (Essay on Maturity) Vibration by Penny Peirce Wanderful by David Pearl Change Stories by Dr. Suzanne Evans (Angus Fletcher on Storytelling) “Write. Cut. Rewrite.” at the Bodleian Library “Omens, Oracles, and Answers” at the Bodleian Library Rumi Oracle Cards by Alana Fairchild

In this year-end episode of 'Life Beyond the Numbers,' I explore the theme of going beyond the status quo. The episode features a compilation of interviews and stories from previous episodes focused on creating a more fulfilling work life by emphasising the human side of our work-lives. I share a selection of snippets with insights on topics such as the importance of avoiding short-termism, the value of shifting perspective, the impact of intentionality and care in interactions, fostering high-performing teams, and the crucial link between psychological safety and innovation. Approximate timings: 05:00 Kevin Chevis on Beyond the Short-Term 14:00 Alison Smith on Shifting Perspectives 21:00 Marc Haine on Intentional Interactions 26:00 Liz Jarman on Building High-Performing Teams 33:00 Helen Joy on Psychological Safety & Innovation Previous Episodes: #176 Trust with Kevin Chevis #178 A Metaphor for our Lives with Alison Smith #190 A Couple of Centimetres of Care with Marc Haine #187 Willing to Take Risks with Liz Jarman #170 Leaping Forwards with Helen Joy

"The actions that we take are the things that are going to get us results, whether we like it or not. And so looking at those results, which business leaders are looking at all the time. We're always looking at those results. Are we meeting our outcomes? Are we meeting our metrics? And if we're not getting those results, well, we're not taking the right actions." Katie McLaughlin Katie McLaughlin returns to Life Beyond the Numbers to chat to me about the team dynamics and how our emotions and actions driver our results. We cover the role emotions play in shaping team performance and the link between emotional awareness and intentional action in the workplace. Katie speaks of her unique use of theatre techniques to help teams explore and transform workplace dynamics. We chat about the importance of having fun and creating moments of levity to improve team culture and how leaders can foster psychological safety and trust within their teams. A key takeaway from this episode is the common misconception we might have that if our actions got results there's this assumption that those actions are correct ... however, there's a lot of different actions that could be taken to get the same results. Katie McLaughlin is an engaging speaker, workshop facilitator, and strategy consultant with over 15 years of experience in high-growth companies such as Wayfair, Upserve, and Rocket Lawyer. In 2020, Katie founded McLaughlin Method, a boutique consulting firm specializing in improving team and company culture through actionable, interactive, skill-building programs. She facilitates team workshops as the core focus of her practice, customizing sessions to fit specific industries, team dynamics, and outcomes. Leveraging her background in theater, Katie creates a fun, judgment-free environment where teams can improve collaboration and achieve goals through empathy, open communication, and conflict resolution. She has facilitated thousands of workshops, helping teams build collaborative cultures and achieve immediate improvements in empathy and connectivity. Connect with Katie: Her website: www.mclaughlinmethod.com On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mclaughlinkatie/ Resources Mentioned: Free Team Health Score Quiz www.teamhealthscorequiz.com Episode 104 Your Intention https://www.beyond-thenumbers.com/podcast-episodes/104

"For everything that we do, if you cared this much - just a couple of centimetres of care - it would make all the difference in the world". Marc Haine Marc Haine and I discuss how small, intentional acts of care can transform the ordinary into the extraordinary. From building trust to creating a culture of excellence, this episode is packed with insights on why daring to care just a little bit more matters so much. From his journey in hospitality to leading teams in high-pressure environments, Marc illustrates how intentionality and connection can bridge the gap between mediocrity and excellence. He challenges us all to approach every experience — whether a banquet or a brief conversation — with the same care and dedication. Marc shares a story of Orlando Airport staff handing out free ice cream during a heatwave — an example of how thoughtful gestures, even as small as a scoop of ice cream, can leave a lasting impression. If you’ve ever wondered how small changes can lead to big impacts, this episode will inspire you to approach interactions with more intentionality and care, no matter the context. Marc Haine is a customer experience expert, keynote speaker, consultant, and author of Lights! Camera! Action! With 35 years of experience in hospitality, retail, and other customer-facing industries, Marc has created unique frameworks to help organizations build lasting connections to become THE brand of choice. Marc’s energetic, humorous, and authentic delivery makes him relatable and fun. He empowers business operators with unique tools to create jaw-dropping, show-stopping experiences their customers and employees deserve. Marc’s podcasts, Marc Haine Live and Experience Leadership: The Small Business Podcast, have over 150,000 views world-wide. Marc is the 2023 Community Spirit Award recipient in his local community. He is the co-founder and president of several non-profit organizations, such as: Walk the Talks, East of 60 Productions Society, and sits on the national board of the Canadian Association of Professional Speakers (CAPS). During his free time (if he has any), you can find Marc tossing a mean pizza, or showing off his mad sourdough skills. If you are lucky, you might even see him on a comedy stage near you. Marc lives in the quaint town of Devon, Alberta with his beautiful wife and his menagerie of pets. Connect with Marc: https://meetwith.marchaine.com Marc@MarcHaine.com Http://MarcHaine.com FB: / masterofexperiences IN: https:// www.instagram.com/MarcJLHaine TW: / marchaine2 Resources Mentioned: Lights! Camera! Action! Business Operational Excellence Through the Lens of Live Theatre by Marc Haine Leading Beyond the Numbers by Susan Ni Chriodain

"We can do so much better for ourselves in terms of the way in which we live and the degree of fulfilment and meaning that we derive from life." Kate Jones Kate Jones shares her unique approach to fostering personal and organisational fulfilment. We explore her Wheel of New Horizons, a framework for helping successful yet unfulfilled individuals reconnect with their heart's desires and navigate life changes with purpose. Kate also unveils her Work Thrivometer, a tool that pinpoints 10 ingredients for thriving in the workplace. From redefining success to balancing sensitivity with strength, Kate offers a fresh perspective on achieving a deeply fulfilling life. Her story of a transformative trek in the Himalayas brings these insights to life, highlighting the interplay of leadership, followership, and inner purpose. Kate Jones is a certified leadership and life coach, consultant and facilitator that specialises in helping purpose-led leaders create more Deeply Human® organisations where more people can thrive and do their best work without burning out. She is on a mission to change the world of work, and to help as many people as possible to live, lead and work well. She founded Neon in 2013 after ten years in corporate consulting and a further ten in social care. She is the architect of the Deeply Human® leadership model and leads The Deeply Human Culture Club, a community of like-minded leaders who want more organisations to be a force for good on the inside and out. Connect with Kate: Through her website Deeply Neon On LinkedIn Kate's Linktree Resources Mentioned: The Wheel of New Horizons & The Neon Work Thriveometer Simon Sinek Brene Brown The Olympics

"If they're not applying creative and intuitive thinking in addition to critical and judgmental thinking, then they're not creating new knowledge for the organisation. They're just taking old knowledge and rearranging it. And for me, that's not adding value." Jackie Eaton Jackie Eaton shares her unique career path from obtaining a mathematics degree to working in operational research for NATO. She discusses her affection for solving complex problems, her initial struggles to discover a career-fit and the compelling nature of public service. Jackie and I chat about gender dynamics in the workplace, the challenges and rewards of working in a male-dominated, multicultural environment, the importance of effective communication, the role of psychology in leadership and the impact of AI on analytical work. Jackie shares insights on maintaining optimism and tips for those aspiring to work in organisations like NATO. Jackie Eaton works at NATO. She is a specialist in analysis of public sector issues including defence and health sectors or anything else messy and complex with excellent communication and interpersonal skills. She describes herself as an eternal optimist, smart problem solver, data geek and psychology nerd. She is also a mentor, trainer and ray of sunshine in the office. Connect with Jackie On LinkedIn Resources Mentioned NATO Leading Beyond the Numbers by Susan Ní Chríodáin

"...they were willing to take risks for the experience .... and I think I've really taken that on." Liz Jarman Liz Jarman and I discuss her planned departure as CEO of Living Goods at the end of 2024. She shares her fascinating approach to succession planning, leadership transitions and a non-linear career path. We chat through some of her achievements, including fostering a strong organisational culture, scaling operations sustainably and spearheading a digital transformation in community health. Liz reflects on the influence of her upbringing on her leadership style, her emphasis on a high-performing team and giving people recognition - all offering invaluable lessons on leadership and managing change. Liz Jarman was named CEO of Living Goods in 2018 and is a member of the Living Goods Board of Directors. Liz has 25 years of experience from various sectors, Liz joined Living Goods in 2014 as Director of Product Strategy and was promoted to Kenya Country Director in 2015 and at the end of 2017, she was promoted to Chief Strategy Officer. Born in Zambia, Liz spent a large portion of her career at Sainsbury’s, a $30 billion UK grocery business where she rose to lead Sainsbury’s Product Development and Fairtrade strategy and worked with thousands of global suppliers with a particular focus on African sustainable supply chains. Connect with Liz On LinkedIn Resources Mentioned Living Goods Squiggly Careers Podcast

"Don't be funny, be human - you don't have to force it. Have a sense of humour. Have the ability to look at situations and see the humour that you do when you're outside of work. How often do you go home from work and you're sitting at the dinner table saying to your partner, or your family, you just wouldn't even believe what happened today..." Beth Sherman Beth Sherman and I place a lens on the transformative power of humour in our work-lives. Beth shares insights from her career as a comedy writer and stand-up comedian, illustrating how humour can be a powerful tool for leaders to build trust, reduce tension and foster team dynamics. We touch on practical applications such as using humour to make interactions more human, make connections in diverse environments and improve workplace resilience. She emphasises the importance of self-awareness and authenticity in using humour effectively. Beth believes humour is a love-language, it can be used like a seasoning and that there is a lot of truth in humour. Beth Sherman is a speaker, comedian, and seven-time Emmy Award-winning Hollywood comedy writer who's written for the biggest shows in American television, including Late Show with David Letterman, The Tonight Show With Jay Leno, Ellen, and the Academy Awards. As a speaker, she helps individuals and organizations harness the power of humor to create meaningful connection and genuine engagement with clients, colleagues and audiences. Connect with Beth LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beth-sherman/ Website: https://www.bethsherman.com/ Resources Mentioned: Professional Speakers Association Victor Borge

"This is about what you are experiencing. And I think the beauty of your experience is it's your experience and no one can argue with that." David Lee and I delve into the significance of emotional self-regulation and co-regulation, highlighting the impact they have on psychological safety and productive workplace environments. We discuss concepts from my book 'Leading Beyond the Numbers' including the importance of emotional granularity and how subtle changes in language can shape one's perception and interactions. We also cover the value of reflection and curiosity, and the cultural impact of emotions in an organisation. Through relatable examples and research, our discussion offers practical techniques for managing emotions and enhancing workplace culture. David Lee is a coach, consultant, workshop facilitator, keynote speaker, and author of Dealing with a Difficult Co-Worker, who loves creating a win/win/win relationship between people and the organizations they work for. He helps leaders and leadership teams learn how to become "people whisperers", and by doing so, increase their ability to make their organization THE choice for "A List Talent" and inspire the best in their people. Connect with David On LinkedIn Through his website, SoulSatisfyingWork Resources Mentioned How to Up Your People Game at Work: LinkedIn Live Series (Forthcoming onOct 7th, 14th, 21st & 28th 5pm UK/12pm EST) Leading Beyond the Numbers, Susan Ní Chríodáin The Book of Human Emotions, Tiffany Watt Smith The Emotional Dictionary, Susie Dent Lisa Feldman Barrett, How Emotions are Mad Daniel Goleman Steven Porges and Polyvagal Theory Don't Bite the Hook, Pema Chodron Ted Lasso on Apple TV Emotional Agility, Susan David

I am thoroughly enjoying reading "Wayfinding: The Art and Science of How We Find and Lose Our Way" by Michael Bond and have drawn from it to put together this episode. The parallels between how we do this out there in the wild and within the daily confines or our work-life struck me. I've used excerpts from this book, in particular the psychology of being lost, for this episode and added some of my own thoughts, stories and poems. Please note that I will be taking a break for the month of August. Until September .... happy wandering! Resources Mentioned Wayfinding: The Art and Science of How We Find and Lose Our Way by Michael Bond